The Sub.Standard

Ben Stein expels some Expelled rumors

On April 18, Big Religion might get its answer to Michael Moore from an unlikely source: intellectual (and pop-culture icon) Ben Stein. Stein and Premise Media Corporation are releasing Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, an ambitious and already-controversial documentary that only takes on one of the most rigorously defended scientific theories of all time: evolution. As the producers of the film explained in a press conference Friday, because evolutionary science is the bedrock for many scientific ideas, and because of the potential implications that any disproving of the theory would bring, every self-respecting secular scientist defends Darwin’s theory with a religious fervor most often reserved for…well…religion.

Expelled further suggests that if proof of Intelligent Design (I.D.) was ever found, it would make fools out of many in the scientific community, so for the last several decades, Big Science has blacklisted, dismissed, and occasionally persecuted those who dare to even investigate its potential for answering one of life’s ultimate questions: where did we come from? With the film, Stein is shedding light on the difficulties faced by those who have rejected the establishment’s mandatory poo-pooery of I.D.’s claims, and ultimately fighting for the freedom of those in the scientific community who would choose to approach I.D. with an open mind.

The film has been attacked by many in the scientific community (most of the attacks, the producers point out, coming from those who have not seen the movie) with claims bordering on slander, according to producer Mark Mathis. Here are some of the controversial claims against the film and how the producers responded in Friday’s press conference:

  1. The interviewees in the film (including noted Darwinian Dr. Richard Dawkins) were interviewed under false pretense and duped into saying things that weren’t representative of their true beliefs. According to Mathis, “Most of the scientists received the questions well in advance, and all the interviewees discussed the questions beforehand. In addition, they all signed a release after the interview (at which point they received payment).” Stein also pointed out Friday that the idea that these scientists would answer particular questions one way to one group of people and a different way to a different group of people was disturbing in itself. Essentially, the scientists’ argument that they were duped is a little like Mel Gibson claiming his drunken anti-Semetic rants were “taken out of context.” The reality of the situation is that the interviewed scientists are subject matter experts, professional speakers and authors, and because they are all of those things, they have developed their ideas over years. In that context, the idea that their answers were not completely thought-out is laughable at best.

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4 Comments so far (Add 1 more)

  1. Ben, some of those points may very well be valid. And I don’t have a problem with you again copying and pasting, this time from Henry Neufeld’s blog posting here: http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1243 as I’m sure they represent your opinions as well. I will point out, however, that Henry himself admits that he based those “problems” with the film on THE TRAILERS.

    Since I haven’t seen the movie either (the guy who originally reviewed the film for us HAS seen the movie, and his review reflects similar concerns as to the appropriateness of the Nazi references), I can’t honestly provide an answer to most of your concerns, as I prefer my own irrational snap judgements to have at least a semblance of rational basis. :)

    I will say, however, that your point that, “The Bible is not a science book, and if reality shows a conflict with a particular interpretaion of the Bible, don’t we have to look and see if it is just our interpretation that might be in error?” is a good one. I don’t believe in blind acceptance of anybody’s dogma, either Big Religion OR Big Science. A similar dilemna surely arises for any self-respecting scientist when they consider certain principles that would appear to challenge evolution as an explanation of origin, like the law of entropy, or the first law of thermodynamics. There are ways Darwinists can explain away the fact that these established scientific laws appear to contradict evolutionary principles, because their worldview depends on it, just as many creationists’ worldviews require them to make certain leaps of faith.

    When my reality seems to conflict with my particular interpretation of the Bible, I will most certainly examine my interpretations both of the Bible and of that apparent reality. The bottom line is, in those cases where I can’t merge the two on an issue, whereas much of the established scientific community defaults to science, I default to the Biblical. But that’s just me and where my faith lies.

    As for the movie, I’ll just say that I believe that there is enough connection between Nazism and Darwin to justify its inclusion (eugenics, also known as “social Darwinism”, was an integral part of the holocaust - just ask Wikipedia), and with regard to your other concerns, when I actually see the movie, I expect to find that the filmmakers did not take any more creative license than any good filmmaker does to tell a compelling story, which is what they were trying to do after all. But I could be wrong about that.

    1. i got your pop right here on April 3rd, 2008 at 9.51 am
  2. Sir-

    If you want to call me a troll, I really don’t have a problem with that, except that I post on blogs not to pick a fight, but rather to simply provide a side of the story that Expelled doesn’t tell. It is a very heavy handed, one-sided movie that is more propoganda, than information.

    Here are some specific problems I have with the movie-

    -Misrepresentation of evolution
    It’s difficult to explain a theory properly in a short period of time, but there was no attempt made to correctly represent the theory of evolution. References to a totally random process or to lightning hitting some mud are misrepresentations intended to ridicule, not to inform. The ridicule is in no way surprising. This is constant in creationist materials on evolution. This problem is especially egregious in a movie that complains about the way intelligent design (ID) advocates are ridiculed in science.

    -First amendment issues are badly confused
    The first amendment doesn’t provide you with the right to have a particular scientific magazine publish your article, nor does it protect editors from the consequences of not following the rules (Sternberg). Peer review exists for a purpose, and that is to exclude articles that do not provide sufficient fodder for study by those who will read the journal in question. It assures readers, not that the material is all true, but that the material has enough scientific merit to be considered. Further, the first amendment doesn’t guarantee you a job at a particular university, or tenure, nor does it protect you from ridicule. In fact, the first amendment protects the right of others to ridicule you.

    -Academic freedom doesn’t guarantee you a job or tenure
    Tenure is given to people who uphold certain standards and will advance the university. Personally, I’m not all that excited about the tenure system, but that’s because I think freedom is better protected by the variety of institutions of higher education than by a fight at a particular one. A person denied tenure is not automatically denied free speech. He can go down the road. I’m fairly sure the Expelled! crowd could find reasons that someone should be denied tenure; they just don’t think their particular silliness is a good reason.

    -The problem for intelligent design is not that it hasn’t been considered
    In fact, it hasn’t even truly been presented yet, and I don’t mean that the meanies in the educational establishment didn’t allow it a hearing. Rather, it simply has never presented a scientific program that could truly be tested. The ID crowd want something for nothing. They want to be regarded as purveyors of a scientific theory without doing the work. Some want their theory to be presented in high school, without going through the process of consensus building. Intelligent design has provided us with the most heard, published, talked-about, and taught “suppressed” theory in history.

    -The connection of evolution with Hitler
    There are a very small number of things that deserve to be compared with Nazism. There are a variety of causes. Claiming that the theory of evolution is a cause of Nazi Germany and the holocaust is blatantly false. In a movie that complains of ridicule for ID advocates, this level of slander is incredible. The implication of a Nazi connection in Expelled is not at all subtle. It just goes to show the lack of intellectual integrity on the part of the film’s makers, and Ben Stein as a spokesman. They cannot possibly have any clue of how Nazi Germany suppressed people, and at the same time claim that there is a relationship between that and their claimed suppression here.

    -Lastly, the one that annoys me most, is the lie that accepting the theory of evolution is the equivalent of atheism
    Repeatedly, Ben Stein equates the theory of evolution with atheism, and claims that all ID wants is to open the door to considering that God might have done something. Evolution may be incompatible with certain forms of Biblical interpretation, but it is in no way incompatible with basic theism.

    Something that momlovesbeingathome said in response to my post is - “Science that doesn’t line up with what the Bible teaches is bad science - regardless of what the “scientific community” accepts.” The bible is not a science book, and if reality shows a conflict with a particular interpretaion of the bible, don’t we have to look and see if it is just our interpretation that might be in error?

    Benjamin Franklin

    2. Benjamin Franklin on April 3rd, 2008 at 8.36 am
  3. Attention reader: the following comment (below) is from a troll. If you don’t know, a troll is a person who goes from message board to message board looking for fights to pick. For example, this particular person was apparently motivated enough to see this film fail that he was going from blog to blog copying and pasting a pre-written comment. You can find this same diatribe here: http://momlovesbeingathome.wordpress.com/2007/12/22/ben-stein-expelled/#comment-6770

    I’m leaving the comment up, in the interest of freedom of speech and whatnot, but please know that it is written from the distinct point of view of someone who has an active interest in slandering the merits of I.D. and Expelled.

    If you (or the aforementioned commenter) would care to see a response to the idea that the “persecution” of the subjects of the film is overblown and/or isolated, please read the second half of this blentry by clicking “Continue reading…”

    3. i got your pop right here on April 2nd, 2008 at 12.51 pm
  4. This films’ main thesis, that anyone in the science community who believes in God, or is a Darwin dissenter is being “expelled” is false at its core.

    In a New York Times interview, Walter Ruloff (producer of Expelled) said that researchers, who had studied cellular mechanisms, made findings suggestive of an intelligent designer. “But they are afraid to report them”.
    Mr. Ruloff also cited Dr. Francis S. Collins, a geneticist who directs the National Human Genome Research Institute and whose book, “The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief”, explains how he came to embrace his Christian faith. Mr. Ruloff said that Dr. Collins separates his religious beliefs from his scientific work only because “he is toeing the party line”.

    That’s “just ludicrous,” Dr. Collins said in a telephone interview. While many of his scientific colleagues are not religious and some are “a bit puzzled” by his faith, he said, “they are generally very respectful.” He said that if the problem Mr. Ruloff describes existed, he is certain he would know about it.

    Similarly, Dr. Ken Miller is a professed Christian who wrote “Finding Darwin’s God” (which I suggest you read). Dr. Miller has not been “expelled” in any fashion for his belief in God.

    The movie tries to make the case that “Big Science” is nothing but a huge atheist conspiracy out to silence believers, but only presents a very one-sided look at some of the Discovery Institute’s “martyrs”.

    Carolyn Crocker “expelled”? - No.
    Her annual teaching contract was not renewed. Was she “fired” for daring to bring God into research? - No. She was hired to teach Cell Biology, and she decided to ignore the schools’ curriculum and substitute her own curriculum.

    Guillermo Gonzalez “expelled”? - No.
    He was not granted tenure. The film doesn’t bring up the fact that in all his years at ISU he had only brought in only a miniscule amount of grant money. Nor does it bring up the fact that in all his years at ISU he failed to mentor a single student through to their PhD. Nor does it mention that in his career at ISU, his previous excellent record of publication had dropped precipitously.

    Richard von Sternberg “expelled”? - No.
    Sternberg continues to work for NIH in the same capacity. Of course the movie doesn’t bring up his underhanded tactics in getting Meyers work published.

    This movie attempts to influence it’s viewers with dishonesty, half-truths, and by a completely one-sided presentation of the facts.

    If a scientists’ research is not accepted by the scientific community, it isn’t because the scientist either believes or doesn’t believe in God or Darwin, it is usually because they are producing bad science.

    4. Benjamin Franklin on April 2nd, 2008 at 9.13 am

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  1. By PlugRug.com on March 31 . 2008 at 10.00 am

    Ben Stein expels some Expelled rumors | The Sub Standard…

    The upcoming movie on Intelligent Design has already been attacked by many in the scientific community with claims bordering on slander, according to producer Mark Mathis. Here are some of the controversial claims against the film and how the producers…

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